Germany: GOBD compliance certificate

[phse]

Hello,

We are implementing SAP Concur in our entity in Germany and we are looking for a certified proof that SAP Concur in GOBD compliant.

Anybody knows if such a certifcat exists ?

Thanks.

Philip

[Munari_alEXPert]

dear @phse 

great question, which unfortunately I can't answer myself at this stage as I am not working with German branches today. I know that German rules are one of the strictest in Europe.

If you are the company Concur administrator, did you try to contact your account manager from Concur, they would be able to provide all supporting proof, since they have probably the main branches in Germany (SAP was a German company). Otherwise maybe someone in here could answer, but in your case, as those are fiscal rules and requirements, I would rather having an answer from a certified sources from your account Concur manager rather than a forum (just my opinion). In all it would be great to know. thank you.

[phse]

Hello Alessandro,

Thanks for your response but as far as I understand proving that Concur is GOBD compliant is a must in Germany. According to our account manager at SAP Concur the company has no such certification from a third party to share with us, only a process description written by themselves.

As was wondering how other German SAP Concur customers manage this compliance aspect with the Tax Authorities. Is a certificate really obligatory ?

Thanks,

Philip

[Munari_alEXPert]

dear Philp @phse 

I guess you might have checked in the net too, but I found this article which maybe of an interest https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2020-0111-germanys-ministry-of-finance-revises-standards-for-proper-mana...

I am not a tax expert, but I would guess this requirements is a must if your company use electronic receipts taken for example with mobile phone, without keeping original, for VAT recovery and tax related matter for individual German's employees tax return and company's taxes. This is just an assumption. I would also guess that the Concur Account manager didn't escalate the matter to their German's colleagues so he didn't fully research.

My suggestion (and I will put a person in copy of this message who may be an extra help) would be to deal with a German tax advisor (e.g. EY, PWC...) through your company entity in Germany and know more about this GOBD requirements and if it would be needed based on your set up of concur within the company. Than, request to Concur to follow up with the requirement in Germany.  

@KevinD would you have some colleagues in Germany within the Tax / Fiscal fields who could better address Philip and so other potential German's customers? Thank you.

[KevinD]

@Munari_alEXPert @phse I don't have any German colleagues I can reach out to specifically, but I have posted the question internally to a Slack channel. I'm hoping for a response. I'll post here what I find out.

[KevinD]

@phse I sent you a private message containing a document. Check the little envelope icon in the upper right-hand corner. 

[phse]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks very much the document. I had the German version but not the English version.

Nevertheless we need a certification document and we are having a call with Concur to get this.

Best regards,

Philip

[Munari_alEXPert]

dear @phse 

as this topic would impact most of companies that have an entity in Germany, please once you will get a call/answers keep us posted (if you feel to share) as it could be really useful. thank you.

[KevinD]

@phse that is good to hear. As @Munari_alEXPert mentioned, please keep us informed on what you find out from your call. 

[dcgilleo]

@KevinD Are there any updates as to when Concur will be certified to allow electronic receipts for Germany?

[KevinD]

@dcgilleo to be honest, I didn't know we weren't certified. I'll have to ask about this. Seems like it would be something Germany would need to approve for SAP Concur. Let me see if I can find anything out.

[KevinD]

@dcgilleo here is what I was told: "Germany in fact does allow digital receipts, however the client would need to get approval from their local German tax authority, since this up to them."

[rohanpatil]

Hi @KevinD ,

The link seems to be one for SAP internal Wiki page. Is there perhaps one that can be accessed by clients? Thanks.

[KevinD]

@rohanpatil I'm asking if we have one that is not in German. The one I was provided is written in German.

[dcgilleo]

Hi, @KevinD 

I was told previously that Concur was working on getting approval on this as I believe it's been done for other countries?  Also, is there an update on the link? 

Thank you!

[KevinD]

@dcgilleo getting approval on what exactly? 

[dcgilleo]

@KevinDsorry - obtaining approval/certification from the German government that the electronic receipts stored in Concur were approved? 

[KevinD]

@dcgilleo I'm not sure that is how it works as Germany allows digital receipts, but the German Government doesn't approve the receipts as they don't have access to see the expense reports in your site. In my other post where I mention approval, it is about getting approval from the local tax authority to use digital receipts, not approval of submitted receipts.

Does that make sense? 

[dcgilleo]

@KevinD From what I've been told is that Concur has to have be certified or "proofed" as DMS by the German government and then we wold no longer have to collect paper receipts.  It doesn't seem like we can get answers anywhere if Concur should be obtaining this certification in general or each business? 

[KevinD]

@dcgilleo I believe the "proofing" has been done. However, my contact told me the following:

"The link to the document is customer facing. This describes all the details that cover the whole Concur process.

With this document the clients can work together with their tax office and get the ok for a paperless receipt process.

I have not heard of any difficulties to date getting this approval from Tax Offices.

If the client of course requires support then we have a partner in Germany that can support: PSP

Here is a link to a brochure (also in German) Digital Receipts Brochure 

The brochure is in German. I'm asking to see if we have an English version or not.

[dcgilleo]

Thanks @KevinD !